The Great BARRY MANILOW Debate!

M.S. HOLLAND You know, KIU has a reputation for good taste in music. Why are we  even talking about this guy? If he was any more boring, he'd be Pat Boone. Face it. Barry Manilow is the musical Antichrist.

CAITLYN I, for one, have NEVER claimed to have good taste in music, just  strong opinions on what I like and what I don't, and I LOVE Barry Manilow. Anyone who says he is boring obviously has not listened to him recently. You can call 'Copacabana' many things; you can call it cheesy, you can call  it silly, you can even call it bad, but boring it is not. Most importantly, he is an amazing performer and entertainer. I recently  saw him in concert. The man was singing his heart out. Barry clearly loves performing. He is committed to his fans. He believes in his music. Anyone  who is that passionate cannot be the musical Antichrist.

DR BOB Who is dis brudder, mon? Was he in Aswad?

CAITLYN To clarify for Dr Bob and anyone else who might be confused, Barry Manilow is a singer/song-writer most famous for his work in the late 70's and early 80's. His best remembered works are love ballads and the disco classic 'Copacabana.'  Although still recording and touring, Barry hasn't had a hit since I was about 4 years old.Interestingly, he got his start writing commercial jingles and as Bette Midler's pianist.

DR BOB Tanks, mon. You be uptoon top rankin'. Me will read about da Manilow, mon, and see wat you brudders and sisters say aboot Da Mon, mon. Respect. (Zion.)

M.S. HOLLAND Lordy. I do indeed call it cheesy, silly, and bad. I haven't been able to hear him lately, because I haven't been in any elevators, where his music still rules. Of course he's boring. If you cloned him four times, and those clones formed a band, they'd be Journey. Dr. Bob, don't be fooled by that "disco classic" line, either. It does a great disservice to Donna Summer, not to mention the Village People, fer crissakes. As for the ballads, if you've heard "Mandy," you've heard every one he's ever done.

AMANDA Being a typical Gemini, I am of course able to see BOTH sides of the argument. Whilst I cannot claim to own any Manilow recordings (why WOULD I?), I do think that some of the melodies in his ballads are not unpleasant (his lyrics, however, let him down.) MS, your feelings on this issue are strong, and I respect them. However, do you not think that Manilow has a 'camp' appeal, a sort of 'kitsch' allure of which pop music can not be the defining scale by which we judge him, but 'entertainment value'? (A la Liberace?) And what say you, Caitlyn?

CAITLYN Amanda, I feel that your comment hit the nail on the head precisely. Manilow's greatness is not in the music itself but in the overall entertainment value. His songs are classics NOT because of their musical brilliance. His melodies are pleasant. His lyrics rather middling, but he performs them with such energy and conviction that the bad becomes good. Of course, he's camp and kitsch, and I don't think Manilow himself would ever claim to be anything else. I think that many pop musicians and pop music aficionados tend to take themselves and the music a tad too serious. Please, we're not brokering world peace here. We're just trying to amuse ourselves. And that's why Manilow's refreshing, he understands exactly what he purpose in life is and never tries to imagine that he is anything more vital.

M.S HOLLAND Maybe if it's "Weenie Camp." Also, judging by military tribunal might be a good idea.

PIERRE I like ‘Copacabana’. I think it's really good. I like that bit about 'Tony'. I think it's got a kind of a 'holiday' feel about it. It reminds me of being driven around by my parents on holiday when I was a kid. This was always on the radio. This is what it reminds me of. (We almost ran over a dog once.)

AMANDA (Aaaaah, Peachy. That’s so cute!)

MRS C Barry Manilow has become a pop icon. Like him or hate him, we have all heard his music and have been touched by it in some way.

AMANDA Your call, M.S.....

M.S HOLLAND Glory, I didn't think I would find so much Barrymania on hand. See, here's my problem with the guy. It's not the fact that he's not some rocker. I like Paul Simon, for example, who isn't exactly Hendrix. It's that those ballads are all the same. I assume they still are, he still records. He could sing the same song all night, and people would swoon. Not only is it Vegas, it's cheap Vegas. I'd rather listen to Wayne Newton. Seriously. At least he knows how to do Vegas properly.

AMANDA I'm stepping in here, as M.S has reminded me of one of MY personal gripes with Barry M. Okay, he's got all these middle-aged housewives swooning over him, right? He writes songs with titles like 'Mandy'. He does all that 'kissing-the-hands-of-the-ladies' business at his concerts. HELLO?! The whole WORLD knows that Barry Manilow is GAY. Why isn't he (like Lancelot) 'OUT and PROUD', instead of coyly hiding behind an assumed heterosexuality in order to exploit his legions of housewife-fans? Do you thin this is a bit 'un-P.C' of Manilow to consistently evade the question of his orientation whilst AT THE SAME TIME 'conning' his female fans into thinking he's straight? Your call, Cailtyn....

LANCELOT I'm OUT and I'm PROUD!

AMANDA Shut up, Lancey. Caitlyn,....your call!

CAITLYN I cannot defend Barry Manilow for the actions he takes in his personal life. I do wish he would be frank with his sexuality, but that is solely on his conscious. I can't say that he is exactly 'conning' his female fans. Conning would include a denial of homosexuality and an open assertion that he was heterosexual, which he has never done. His only love song with a female's name in the title was 'Mandy' and that was written at a time when most gay performers chose to remain in the closet. I think there is nothing wrong with his cordial behavior towards his female fans. As they are very loving to Barry, he is loving to them in return. I have very affectionate relationships with my gay male friends, and yet I certainly have never construed a hug or a kiss to mean anything more than what it does. And regardless of whatever his sexual orientation is, I believe my original point still holds that he is a great entertainer.

MRS C I would just like to remind everyone that in addition to being a pop star, Barry is a legendary jingle writer. He wrote the jingle for the Bandaid commercial. One of the most successful jingles in advertising history that is still used today: 'I am stuck on bandaids Cause bandaids stuck on me' It's simple and to the point and everyone remembers it. That's talent.

M.S HOLLAND I'm all for a clever line, and you are correct, Mrs.C., that is  talent. What's too bad is that he just didn't become an ad agency executive. We'd all be spared that way. People can call him a great entertainer if they want, but I don't see it. I see Victor Vegas singing the same kind of song, over and over, dressed like a magician working the Sunday Buffet at Chuck E Cheese.

AMANDA Oooouuuffff! Callenging words, MS. I don't know what 'Chuck E Cheese' IS, but it doesn't sound good. Now, I know that Caitlyn is big on style and fashion, and her own sartorial elegance and ability to 'keep up with every new trend' (whilst adhereing to her own, very marked 'signature look') is dear to her heart. As an aspiring manager of Boys Bands, I know that Caitlyn recognises the importance of artists as the spear-heads of style. With this in mind, what say YOU, Caitlyn, to the Manilow satin-shirt/white-flares/big medallion 'chic' - a 'chic' he has continued to embrace since Copacabana was in the charts? Would YOU take him into your 'Stable of Starts' dressed like THAT?

CAITLYN Actually, Barry has changed his look in the past few years. While he keeps to the satin shirt (one can't do away with their signature look) he now wears it with a stylish suit and I tie. He was one of the first celebrities to wear the matching tie and shirt look (in blue to match his eye), before Regis Philbin made it a fashion craze. Manilow always manages to look dapper and put together. And I would not hesitate to welcome him into my Stable of Stars. The man is a guaranteed money maker.

LORD PETER SWANK I must interject. Barry is a dear friend of mine. We often run into each other in Acapulco, and although my musical preference run more towards Herb Alpert, Burt Bacharach and Sergio Mendes, Barry mixes a mean Pina Colada. I remember once, when relaxing poolside, I asked him about his mode of dress. 'Petey baby', he replied. 'It's my bread-winner! Without the satin shirt, I'm a nobody. A schmuck. A wash-up. Just a kid from the Bronx with a broken down piano and a big, big dream!' I hope this has helped clarify the issue of Mr Manilow's attired. I bid you all 'adieu'. My flight is about to depart.

CAITLYN I think Lord Peter's comment perfectly proves what a savvy business man Manilow is. Let's all remember that we are talking about POPULAR music, meaning music that is enjoyed by a large number of people, and Barry Manilow is enjoyed by a large number of people. He knows how to give the public what it wants; be it a satin shirt, a sappy love song, or a catchy jingle. His career has now spanned over 30 years. He has made millions and millions of dollars in record sales. He concert tours still sell out. He just had a one hour special on national television, and just came out with ANOTHER greatest hits album. There's no getting rid of Barry Manilow. He has become a phenomon.

M.S. HOLLAND He's been around a long time, I will actually give him points for that. "Phenomenon" may be a tad strong, though. He struck a chord with a certain group, and they've stuck with him. To the millions, I say....so what? Lots of artists have made millions, and many of them put out a load of dreck. By the way, the current "greatest hit" offering was just a marketing ploy. It doesn't mean anything of and by itself. He gives his public what it wants, not the public at large. That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is this....he's a lounge act, an average one at that, that made it big.

DR BOB And he doon't do no reggae, mon. Not even a bit' a Dub.

CAITLYN I'm sorry, I have to admire anyone who manages to millions of record. Even artistis whose music, I don't personally like, I have to admire because they are money makers. I think it is also quite an amazing feat that he has maintained a loyal and devoted following for such a long time. Just think of the number of artists who have disappeared into the woodwork. Yes, his greatest hits was a marketing ploy. Name me one long term successful musical artist who has not engaged in a marketing ploy. Pop music is a business afterall. Finally, I don't think you have spent much time in lounges at all if you say that Barry Manilow is an average lounge act. He vocal and piano skills are much higher than your average lounge singer at the Holiday Inn. You might not like his style of music but he is a talented musician.

SERGE Hello, everybody. This is your petit bonhomme, Serge. I have listened to all of your thoughts, and I think that the time has come for everyone to kiss and make up. And to kiss me most of all. (Can I have some cake now, please?)

AMANDA (Of course you can, darling.)

M.S. HOLLAND I'm about done talking about this dork, anyway. He's about as exciting as licking the back of a stamp. I'm going to go listen to something worthy, like Smokey Robinson, to cleanse my soul of this hideous topic.

CAITLYN Ouff!!! Such bitter words from M.S! There's no need to run off in a huff! There's plenty of room on the musical landscape for both Barry Manilow and Smokey Robinson. I, personally, enjoy both for different reasons. And I like the taste of the back of a stamp, and was upset when the post office moved to the use of pre-glued stamps. Hmmm...maybe that should be our next debate.

PIERRE Isn’t anyone going to ask me about that dog?…..